Kalahari Wayrest
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2008.09.01 15:34:00 -
[1]
I read over this and while the CSM got a lot done, the issue overall is one of time. I don't think a meeting should be going on that long - not just for the comfort of CSM members, but it got confusing with people leaving (though understandably) and who was voting, and a lot of the votes seemed rushed through, particularly when peoples votes would hinge on a particular point.
So I'm starting to see the need for a CSM-only forum. (and probably alternates too, given if they're going to be filling in and actually voting, they should probably have a chance to discuss things before hand as well) By CSM-only, I don't mean privacy - I think transparency is important in discussions - but one in which only CSM members post to discuss issues amongst themselves (visitors to the board are read-only). Yes, we already have a discussion forum for the CSM here, but that's between players and CSM, not for the CSM to discuss amongst themselves. (the problem being if they tried to discuss things amongst themselves here, players would jump in and then it wouldn't be discussing amongst themselves anymore) And yes, they can do that in the meetings, but then they end up being 5 hours long...
Rather than explanations and arguments in the meeting, that could have all been done and dusted on a forum. The advantage to a forum over a discussion meeting, is that anyone can swing by at their own convenience and in their own time zone - also that they can explore issues more fully. The disadvantages would be issues being explored a bit too much and egos/sniping going on (which seems to happen in all forums) so it would have to be professional and, if not CCP moderated/hosted then self moderated/hosted if possible.
The link to a CSM only forum if not CCP hosted/moderated could be posted as a sticky on Jita Speakers Corner, so everyone could read what the CSM's arguments /explanations to each other are. Also there's the issues of the minutes/chatlog making sense, so when an issue is brought up and briefly described just so CSM members remember what it is, a link could be put in either at the time or afterwards to the thread on the CSM forum so people can read what the arguments between CSM members for that issue was. (I don't think a link to the current eve-o CSM forums is necessary, as players would have already had an opportunity to read all that, as well as the opportunity to post and make their own arguments/own votes there)
So I wouldn't see it as 'adding an extra layer' of confusing bureaucracy, more like removing any explanation /argument from the meetings and having those elsewhere. Nor is it replacing the discussion between CSM and players, just that it's necessary to have discussion between CSM members too.
So I'd see the meetings going as:
3. Skills and balancing issues: for example the [ ] being changed to the [ ]. [Thread link] vote yay or nay
yay
nay
nay
yay
yay etc 
then onto 4. Basically, less debating. There'd still be æ!Æ if people had problems - such as errors, but most of what they didn't understand or didn't agree with to the specific issue would have already been debated, and they'd then know what their vote is without all the "I'll vote this, if you make this clear..."
Also there seem to be confusion on the documents - could those have been read before hand (posted on a CSM only discussion forum!) or are they only published at the meetings? If the latter is true, it might save confusion to put a motd on IRC saying:
"For meeting 9 you should all have docs (filename) (filename) (filename)to hand for reference" - then anyone who doesn't have those, knows from the outset that they don't, but should.
Apologies if I've misunderstood/misrepresented the process, I only follow things vaguely and it's what the meeting suggested to me.
tl;dr - CSM only-forum seems like a good idea, and IRC motd with the filenames for documents might be useful in meetings.
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